Why shut down anything that might be interesting?

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Replies | Post Reply | Shakespeare Queries & Replies From Everyone Else 4.2.97: Top | Help

Why shut down anything that might be interesting?

It is certainly an error to assume that art reflects life
in any transparent manner. If a writer creates a character
or persona who is X, it clearly does not mean that he/she is
also X. But it DOES mean that he/she is interested for
some reason in X, and it can be interesting to speculate
as to why. There have been many subtle and brilliant
answers to the question "why is Shakespeare interested in
intense love-relations between men?" And he clearly was:
in addition to the sonnets there is Antonio and Sebastian,
Antonio and Bassanio, etc. The byplay between "Ganymede"
and Orlando in AYLI also bespeaks an interest in tension
homoerotic love and heterosexual marriage. To say that
this recurrent thematic concern has nothing to do with
the life or times of the writer is as irresponsible as to
argue that they reflect the writers life in any transparent
way.
Posted by Cloten on April 10, 1997 at 08:54:28
In Reply to "Nope." posted by Bruce Spielbauer on April 10, 1997 at 04:26:15

Replies

You Had to Ask.... Bruce Spielbauer 15:23:43 4/10/97 (2)
- There's incest in Shakespeare too Cloten 15:56:50 4/10/97 (1)
  - Shhhh... Bruce Spielbauer 17:09:53 4/10/97 (0)
And your point is? Bruce Spielbauer 14:32:40 4/10/97 (15)
- you did imply it Cloten 16:59:09 4/10/97 (13)
  - Nope. Bruce Spielbauer 17:36:07 4/10/97 (7)
    - the importance of being in some context Bill Routhier 20:18:09 4/14/97 (5)
      - If you cannot find evidence that Shakespeare wrote... Bruce Spielbauer 14:42:52 4/15/97 (2)
        
        Bruce, you needn't shield us from the bawdines of the tale, which goes like this... Bill Routhier 21:27:42 4/15/97 (1)
        
        Where's the evidence for YOUR case? Reality Chuck 07:01:10 4/18/97 (0)
      - Right on, Bill! Professor Mike 02:01:03 4/15/97 (1)
        
        ? Bruce Spielbauer 14:47:49 4/15/97 (0)
    - Clearer Cloten 17:46:26 4/10/97 (0)
  - Okay, and? Bruce Spielbauer 17:14:23 4/10/97 (4)
    - Nope Cloten 17:27:47 4/10/97 (3)
      - All of this, of course... Bruce Spielbauer 17:45:13 4/10/97 (0)
      - All of this, of course... Bruce Spielbauer 17:44:48 4/10/97 (1)
        
        The issue seems to morph conveniently Cloten 17:52:07 4/10/97 (0)
- I'm not defending poppycock. I'm attacking smugness. cloten 16:04:48 4/10/97 (0)
Just because you see it, doesn't mean it's there. Reality Chuck 12:13:27 4/10/97 (69)
- That's an angument that cuts both ways Cloten 16:20:41 4/10/97 (67)
  - I'm not denying Reality Chuck 08:03:21 4/11/97 (36)
    - Geez you seem to be Bill Routhier 23:18:41 4/12/97 (1)
      - There are plenty of curiosities here. Just no facts. Reality Chuck 06:53:38 4/14/97 (0)
    - Sure Cloten 09:42:09 4/11/97 (33)
      - Shock Horror! Professor Mike 02:07:50 4/15/97 (29)
        
        Sorry, but you are wrong (as usual). Bruce Spielbauer 04:58:29 4/15/97 (28)
        
        Sorry to you, Herr Poppycock... Professor Mike 15:24:33 4/15/97 (9)
        
        "Shall I compare..." Thersites 01:43:59 4/16/97 (8)
        
        Shall I Compare Thee to a Poppycock? Professor Mike 02:15:08 4/16/97 (7)
        
        Once again, your analysis breaks down when confronted with reality. Reality Chuck 07:52:24 4/17/97 (3)
        
        The sonnets in sequence Professor Mike 10:29:17 4/17/97 (1)
        
        Endless orgy Reality Chuck 13:56:27 4/17/97 (0)
        
        The sonnets in sequence Professor Mike 10:24:53 4/17/97 (1)
        
        Endless orgy Reality Chuck 13:56:27 4/17/97 (0)
        
        What you said Thersites 04:41:44 4/16/97 (2)
        
        Withdraw? Never! Professor Mike 10:32:23 4/17/97 (1)
        
        Contradiction Thersites 01:13:22 4/18/97 (0)
        
        Bruce, you keep saying that good scholarship dictates Bill Routhier 07:07:44 4/15/97 (17)
        
        Poet Laureate Thersites 01:56:33 4/16/97 (1)
        
        Thank you thersites, for the correction... Bill Routhier 08:57:09 4/16/97 (0)
        
        "What We Already Know" Vs. "Invention" Bruce Spielbauer 15:03:17 4/15/97 (1)
        
        humbly Bruce, i beseech you... Bill Routhier 22:24:41 4/15/97 (0)
        
        Depends on which direction you're travelling Thersites 07:30:30 4/15/97 (12)
        
        which is exactly what oxfordians do... Bill Routhier 10:11:48 4/15/97 (5)
        
        Precisely! Thersites 01:37:13 4/16/97 (4)
        
        From Conclusion to Premise...Not! Professor Mike 14:21:26 4/17/97 (2)
        
        More narcissism. Reality Chuck 09:46:29 4/18/97 (1)
        
        Chuck, you keep singing the same song... Professor Mike 21:56:28 4/19/97 (0)
        
        and yet it is the same method used in courts of law every day Bill Routhier 09:01:35 4/16/97 (0)
        
        not exactly the case in how Oxfordian scholarship works... Bill Routhier 10:02:56 4/15/97 (5)
        
        Nonsense, as usual. Reality Chuck 13:10:47 4/15/97 (0)
        
        Nonsense, as usual. Reality Chuck 13:10:17 4/15/97 (0)
        
        Burghley : a very well known figure Florence Amit 11:17:42 4/15/97 (2)
        
        you're right, Florence, Bill Routhier 14:05:18 4/15/97 (1)
        
        Looking at Shakespeare differently Florence Amit 16:09:51 4/15/97 (0)
      - Agreed Reality Chuck 06:57:03 4/14/97 (2)
        
        Overstated, too Cloten 08:24:58 4/14/97 (1)
        
        True Reality Chuck 09:17:30 4/14/97 (0)
  - Antonio and elderly man Florence Amit 05:17:10 4/11/97 (4)
    - well Florence... Bill Routhier 23:38:51 4/12/97 (1)
      - Vague , alas Florence Amit 02:53:48 4/13/97 (0)
    - I'm not sure I follow but... Cloten 09:49:40 4/11/97 (1)
      - In theory Florence Amit 16:54:38 4/12/97 (0)
  - ? Bruce Spielbauer 17:19:57 4/10/97 (24)
    - Check your browser Cloten 17:31:09 4/10/97 (23)
      - Batman and Robin Bill Routhier 23:33:56 4/12/97 (20)
        
        Good point, and... Cloten 09:55:41 4/13/97 (19)
        
        yeah but, if you start with a bad premise Bill Routhier 22:12:15 4/13/97 (18)
        
        False binary Cloten 08:27:35 4/14/97 (17)
        
        yet Shakespeare's motivation Bill Routhier 10:17:10 4/14/97 (15)
        
        Contradiction Thersites 01:08:29 4/15/97 (2)
        
        because the court was probably the hardest audience in England! Bill Routhier 07:19:24 4/15/97 (1)
        
        Response Thersites 07:38:37 4/15/97 (0)
        
        how's about the College survey of English Literature Bill Routhier 20:56:19 4/14/97 (2)
        
        Obvious fallacy Reality Chuck 07:16:59 4/15/97 (0)
        
        College Text? Thersites 01:52:14 4/15/97 (0)
        
        Oh? Bruce Spielbauer 18:41:30 4/14/97 (8)
        
        Interesting Equation Thersites 05:57:05 4/15/97 (7)
        
        Which? Bruce Spielbauer 15:12:52 4/15/97 (5)
        
        I was waiting for OJ to come up Bill Routhier 09:20:09 4/16/97 (0)
        
        I was waiting for OJ to come up Bill Routhier 09:19:54 4/16/97 (0)
        
        I was waiting for OJ to come up Bill Routhier 09:16:10 4/16/97 (1)
        
        But is he guilty or not? Thersites 05:13:17 4/17/97 (0)
        
        I've already made up my mind... Thersites 02:06:17 4/16/97 (0)
        
        well, i'm not sure they really were, Bill Routhier 07:28:06 4/15/97 (0)
        
        yet Shakespeare's motivation Bill Routhier 10:15:30 4/14/97 (0)
      - Check your Quotations Bruce Spielbauer 17:48:42 4/10/97 (1)
        
        How many angels can fit on the head of a pin Cloten 17:54:41 4/10/97 (0)
- Sonnet 20 Prof Mike 14:27:10 4/10/97 (0)
You have a point. Thersites 09:54:07 4/10/97 (0)

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