more poppycock

a word from our sponsors

See the new shakespeare.com. This feature, while it still provides useful information, is no longer maintained.

Replies | Post Reply | Shakespeare Queries & Replies From Everyone Else 4.2.97: Top | Help

more poppycock

Well you certainly don't pull your punches.
S might not have created boy actors but he certainly
exploited the sexual ambiguities.
You miss the strong probability that the sonnets were
autobiographical. Before you say it, I know it can't be
documented, but then almost everything claimed for S
can't be documented including, eg., his exact birth date
and whether he attended school. The internal evidence of the
sonnets reveals their autobiographical nature.
The Shakespearian dialectic is far more than irony. It's
a style..."where civil blood makes civil hands unclean."
Try to bring some respect to the discussion. We can diagree
without either of us spouting poppycock.
Posted by Professor Mike on April 10, 1997 at 02:45:39
In Reply to "Poppycock" posted by Bruce Spielbauer on April 09, 1997 at 15:38:23

Replies

The internal evidence of Black Beauty reveals it's autobiographical nature Reality Chuck 05:47:42 4/10/97 (58)
- The sonnets are probably autobiographical Professor Mike 14:12:34 4/10/97 (57)
  - More fallacious reasoning Reality Chuck 07:54:35 4/11/97 (8)
    - See "A Close Reading of Sonnet 121," please Professor Mike 03:36:20 4/12/97 (7)
      - I saw it. Quite amusing. Reality Chuck 06:52:16 4/14/97 (6)
        
        Childish Abuse, Chuck. Professor Mike 01:47:57 4/15/97 (5)
        
        I don't play word games. Reality Chuck 05:34:11 4/15/97 (4)
        
        No, you CAN'T interpret any way you like... Professor Mike 13:44:29 4/15/97 (3)
        
        Shakey interpretation hotspurs boots 06:48:59 5/22/97 (0)
        
        But you HAVE interpreted it just the way you want. Reality Chuck 06:08:06 4/16/97 (0)
        
        Using your standards, it is. Reality Chuck 06:07:22 4/16/97 (0)
  - Publication of the Sonnets (igore previous post, which failed) Thersites 04:17:09 4/11/97 (16)
    - may I sugest another? Bill Routhier 20:34:52 4/11/97 (15)
      - You ignore the possibility... Bruce Spielbauer 18:36:24 4/14/97 (11)
        
        how about the fac t that during a famine in Stratford, Shakespeare hoarded grain Bill Routhier 06:49:07 4/15/97 (10)
        
        Evidence Thersites 09:34:33 4/15/97 (9)
        
        no, not folklore... Bill Routhier 13:42:20 4/15/97 (8)
        
        Privy Council Thersites 00:54:05 4/16/97 (1)
        
        you are right that the Privy council in London Bill Routhier 08:39:12 4/16/97 (0)
        
        The author of Lear was not this man... Professor Mike 13:52:03 4/15/97 (5)
        
        Ruling Classes Thersites 03:04:35 4/16/97 (2)
        
        Superflux Bill Routhier 08:34:33 4/16/97 (1)
        
        Ruling Classes Professor Mike 09:39:32 4/17/97 (0)
        
        You might be interested... Cloten 18:58:21 4/15/97 (1)
        
        well, shakespeare truely was conflicted... Bill Routhier 20:40:28 4/15/97 (0)
      - Earl of Derby Thersites 00:40:17 4/14/97 (2)
        
        Mistake Thersites 00:48:34 4/15/97 (1)
        
        yes, they did Bill Routhier 13:49:26 4/15/97 (0)
  - Publication of the Sonnets Thersites 04:16:25 4/11/97 (0)
  - This is what "convinces" you? Bruce Spielbauer 15:07:36 4/10/97 (29)
    - honesty is a serious word, Bruce Bill Routhier 23:12:19 4/12/97 (8)
      - Hmmmm... Bruce Spielbauer 17:51:45 4/13/97 (0)
      - Please try to read before posting such nonsense Bruce Spielbauer 17:46:44 4/13/97 (0)
      - ? Cloten 10:21:54 4/13/97 (5)
        
        I wasn't being hard on academics Bill Routhier 21:54:38 4/13/97 (4)
        
        Again? Bruce Spielbauer 05:12:31 4/14/97 (3)
        
        i have to say Bill Routhier 22:43:46 4/15/97 (0)
        
        i have to say Bill Routhier 22:42:06 4/15/97 (0)
        
        i have to say Bill Routhier 22:38:20 4/15/97 (0)
    - A close reading of Sonnet 121 Prof Mike 03:57:45 4/11/97 (19)
      - Your prejudices are showing Reality Chuck 05:32:20 4/14/97 (7)
        
        Shakespeare was a Martian??? Professor Mike 01:54:54 4/15/97 (6)
        
        Child's play -- how about this one: Reality Chuck 05:52:50 4/15/97 (5)
        
        Not so fast, Buster... Professor Mike 14:34:38 4/15/97 (4)
        
        We're both ridiculous, but I'm doing it deliberately, and you can't help it. Reality Chuck 06:03:03 4/16/97 (3)
        
        can i step in as ref for a sec Bill Routhier 08:53:11 4/16/97 (2)
        
        Chuck(le) Professor Mike 09:57:10 4/17/97 (1)
        
        "Let's try Mikey. He sees homosexuality in everything!" Reality Chuck 10:43:32 4/17/97 (0)
      - Even though... Cloten 15:29:39 4/12/97 (5)
        
        Speaking of King James jaques 05:20:42 4/13/97 (1)
        
        Definitely is too strong a word. Cloten 09:49:36 4/13/97 (0)
        
        Why don't you read what I say? Professor Mike 04:10:20 4/13/97 (2)
        
        I am that I am Thersites 01:41:07 4/14/97 (0)
        
        spies Cloten 10:02:44 4/13/97 (0)
      - Sonnet 121 Thersites 04:37:44 4/11/97 (4)
        
        I said Maybe... Prof Mike 07:46:19 4/11/97 (3)
        
        You're jumping to conclusions again! Thersites 08:38:53 4/11/97 (2)
        
        Literary proof Professor Mike 14:04:05 4/12/97 (1)
        
        Opinion v. Proof Thirsites 00:51:52 4/14/97 (0)
Nope. Bruce Spielbauer 04:26:15 4/10/97 (91)
- Why shut down anything that might be interesting? Cloten 08:54:28 4/10/97 (90)
  - You Had to Ask.... Bruce Spielbauer 15:23:43 4/10/97 (2)
    - There's incest in Shakespeare too Cloten 15:56:50 4/10/97 (1)
      - Shhhh... Bruce Spielbauer 17:09:53 4/10/97 (0)
  - And your point is? Bruce Spielbauer 14:32:40 4/10/97 (15)
    - you did imply it Cloten 16:59:09 4/10/97 (13)
      - Nope. Bruce Spielbauer 17:36:07 4/10/97 (7)
        
        the importance of being in some context Bill Routhier 20:18:09 4/14/97 (5)
        
        If you cannot find evidence that Shakespeare wrote... Bruce Spielbauer 14:42:52 4/15/97 (2)
        
        Bruce, you needn't shield us from the bawdines of the tale, which goes like this... Bill Routhier 21:27:42 4/15/97 (1)
        
        Where's the evidence for YOUR case? Reality Chuck 07:01:10 4/18/97 (0)
        
        Right on, Bill! Professor Mike 02:01:03 4/15/97 (1)
        
        ? Bruce Spielbauer 14:47:49 4/15/97 (0)
        
        Clearer Cloten 17:46:26 4/10/97 (0)
      - Okay, and? Bruce Spielbauer 17:14:23 4/10/97 (4)
        
        Nope Cloten 17:27:47 4/10/97 (3)
        
        All of this, of course... Bruce Spielbauer 17:45:13 4/10/97 (0)
        
        All of this, of course... Bruce Spielbauer 17:44:48 4/10/97 (1)
        
        The issue seems to morph conveniently Cloten 17:52:07 4/10/97 (0)
    - I'm not defending poppycock. I'm attacking smugness. cloten 16:04:48 4/10/97 (0)
  - Just because you see it, doesn't mean it's there. Reality Chuck 12:13:27 4/10/97 (69)
    - That's an angument that cuts both ways Cloten 16:20:41 4/10/97 (67)
      - I'm not denying Reality Chuck 08:03:21 4/11/97 (36)
        
        Geez you seem to be Bill Routhier 23:18:41 4/12/97 (1)
        
        There are plenty of curiosities here. Just no facts. Reality Chuck 06:53:38 4/14/97 (0)
        
        Sure Cloten 09:42:09 4/11/97 (33)
        
        Shock Horror! Professor Mike 02:07:50 4/15/97 (29)
        
        Sorry, but you are wrong (as usual). Bruce Spielbauer 04:58:29 4/15/97 (28)
        
        Sorry to you, Herr Poppycock... Professor Mike 15:24:33 4/15/97 (9)
        
        "Shall I compare..." Thersites 01:43:59 4/16/97 (8)
        
        Shall I Compare Thee to a Poppycock? Professor Mike 02:15:08 4/16/97 (7)
        
        Once again, your analysis breaks down when confronted with reality. Reality Chuck 07:52:24 4/17/97 (3)
        
        The sonnets in sequence Professor Mike 10:29:17 4/17/97 (1)
        
        Endless orgy Reality Chuck 13:56:27 4/17/97 (0)
        
        The sonnets in sequence Professor Mike 10:24:53 4/17/97 (1)
        
        Endless orgy Reality Chuck 13:56:27 4/17/97 (0)
        
        What you said Thersites 04:41:44 4/16/97 (2)
        
        Withdraw? Never! Professor Mike 10:32:23 4/17/97 (1)
        
        Contradiction Thersites 01:13:22 4/18/97 (0)
        
        Bruce, you keep saying that good scholarship dictates Bill Routhier 07:07:44 4/15/97 (17)
        
        Poet Laureate Thersites 01:56:33 4/16/97 (1)
        
        Thank you thersites, for the correction... Bill Routhier 08:57:09 4/16/97 (0)
        
        "What We Already Know" Vs. "Invention" Bruce Spielbauer 15:03:17 4/15/97 (1)
        
        humbly Bruce, i beseech you... Bill Routhier 22:24:41 4/15/97 (0)
        
        Depends on which direction you're travelling Thersites 07:30:30 4/15/97 (12)
        
        which is exactly what oxfordians do... Bill Routhier 10:11:48 4/15/97 (5)
        
        Precisely! Thersites 01:37:13 4/16/97 (4)
        
        From Conclusion to Premise...Not! Professor Mike 14:21:26 4/17/97 (2)
        
        More narcissism. Reality Chuck 09:46:29 4/18/97 (1)
        
        Chuck, you keep singing the same song... Professor Mike 21:56:28 4/19/97 (0)
        
        and yet it is the same method used in courts of law every day Bill Routhier 09:01:35 4/16/97 (0)
        
        not exactly the case in how Oxfordian scholarship works... Bill Routhier 10:02:56 4/15/97 (5)
        
        Nonsense, as usual. Reality Chuck 13:10:47 4/15/97 (0)
        
        Nonsense, as usual. Reality Chuck 13:10:17 4/15/97 (0)
        
        Burghley : a very well known figure Florence Amit 11:17:42 4/15/97 (2)
        
        you're right, Florence, Bill Routhier 14:05:18 4/15/97 (1)
        
        Looking at Shakespeare differently Florence Amit 16:09:51 4/15/97 (0)
        
        Agreed Reality Chuck 06:57:03 4/14/97 (2)
        
        Overstated, too Cloten 08:24:58 4/14/97 (1)
        
        True Reality Chuck 09:17:30 4/14/97 (0)
      - Antonio and elderly man Florence Amit 05:17:10 4/11/97 (4)
        
        well Florence... Bill Routhier 23:38:51 4/12/97 (1)
        
        Vague , alas Florence Amit 02:53:48 4/13/97 (0)
        
        I'm not sure I follow but... Cloten 09:49:40 4/11/97 (1)
        
        In theory Florence Amit 16:54:38 4/12/97 (0)
      - ? Bruce Spielbauer 17:19:57 4/10/97 (24)
        
        Check your browser Cloten 17:31:09 4/10/97 (23)
        
        Batman and Robin Bill Routhier 23:33:56 4/12/97 (20)
        
        Good point, and... Cloten 09:55:41 4/13/97 (19)
        
        yeah but, if you start with a bad premise Bill Routhier 22:12:15 4/13/97 (18)
        
        False binary Cloten 08:27:35 4/14/97 (17)
        
        yet Shakespeare's motivation Bill Routhier 10:17:10 4/14/97 (15)
        
        Contradiction Thersites 01:08:29 4/15/97 (2)
        
        because the court was probably the hardest audience in England! Bill Routhier 07:19:24 4/15/97 (1)
        
        Response Thersites 07:38:37 4/15/97 (0)
        
        how's about the College survey of English Literature Bill Routhier 20:56:19 4/14/97 (2)
        
        Obvious fallacy Reality Chuck 07:16:59 4/15/97 (0)
        
        College Text? Thersites 01:52:14 4/15/97 (0)
        
        Oh? Bruce Spielbauer 18:41:30 4/14/97 (8)
        
        Interesting Equation Thersites 05:57:05 4/15/97 (7)
        
        Which? Bruce Spielbauer 15:12:52 4/15/97 (5)
        
        I was waiting for OJ to come up Bill Routhier 09:20:09 4/16/97 (0)
        
        I was waiting for OJ to come up Bill Routhier 09:19:54 4/16/97 (0)
        
        I was waiting for OJ to come up Bill Routhier 09:16:10 4/16/97 (1)
        
        But is he guilty or not? Thersites 05:13:17 4/17/97 (0)
        
        I've already made up my mind... Thersites 02:06:17 4/16/97 (0)
        
        well, i'm not sure they really were, Bill Routhier 07:28:06 4/15/97 (0)
        
        yet Shakespeare's motivation Bill Routhier 10:15:30 4/14/97 (0)
        
        Check your Quotations Bruce Spielbauer 17:48:42 4/10/97 (1)
        
        How many angels can fit on the head of a pin Cloten 17:54:41 4/10/97 (0)
    - Sonnet 20 Prof Mike 14:27:10 4/10/97 (0)
  - You have a point. Thersites 09:54:07 4/10/97 (0)

Post a Reply

Replies | Post Reply | Shakespeare Queries & Replies From Everyone Else 4.2.97: Top | Help

Name
E-mail
Reply in brief
Reply at length (Note: line breaks will be preserved)


Optional Section (if desired, please fill out before submitting your reply)
Site URL
Site Name
Image URL